DENVER (AP) — A former radio disc jockey accused of groping Taylor Swift before a concert testified Tuesday that he may have touched the pop superstar’s ribs with a closed hand as he tried to jump into a photo with her but insisted he did not touch her backside as she claims.

David Mueller told jurors at the civil trial on dueling lawsuits filed by Mueller and Swift that he and the singer-songwriter were trying to reach around one another and “our hands touched and our arms touched” during a photo opportunity he estimated lasted no more than 40 seconds.

Under questioning by his attorney, Mueller said he may have touched Swift’s “rib cage, or rib, or ribs.”